Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

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Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Lester K H Chua
Hi,

I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
Wicket for use in an organization.
I have:

1) Prototyped a small size module
2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket

No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
was the result.

BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
because of..... of all things.....
- Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
Can I find any numbers to blow this away?

My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
 (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.

Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......

It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
(JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
not as "clean" as Wicket.

Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?

Lester



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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

scott.swank
The wiki has a list of some web sites that use Wicket.
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html

A quick search of IBM shows approx 1,080 articles on Wicket:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:ibm.com+wicket

Scott


On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Lester Chua <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket
> for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was
> the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket because
> of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will
> mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering not
> taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months to
> introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling
> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and
> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work
> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead and
> probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my
> wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not
> as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Steve Swinsburg-3
In reply to this post by Lester K H Chua
On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html

as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html

All the best!

cheers,
Steve



On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket because of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Lester K H Chua
Thanks for the links.
I have already submitted them as part of the evaluation process.

I'll take a look at the IBM links from scott.

Regards,

Lester

Steve Swinsburg wrote:

> On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
>
> as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
>
> All the best!
>
> cheers,
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
>
>  
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket for use in an organization.
>> I have:
>>
>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>
>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was the result.
>>
>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket because of..... of all things.....
>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>
>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>
>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>
>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not as "clean" as Wicket.
>>
>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>    
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
>  


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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Igor Vaynberg-2
here is an interesting tidbit

wicket is on the front page of nabble

http://old.nabble.com/

sorted by activity. we are there along maven, jquery, cxf, tomcat,
etc. how is the adoption on those?

-igor

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Lester Chua <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for the links.
> I have already submitted them as part of the evaluation process.
>
> I'll take a look at the IBM links from scott.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lester
>
> Steve Swinsburg wrote:
>>
>> On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
>>
>> as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
>>
>> All the best!
>>
>> cheers,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>>> Wicket for use in an organization.
>>> I have:
>>>
>>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>>
>>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
>>> was the result.
>>>
>>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>>> because of..... of all things.....
>>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>>
>>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>>> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering
>>> not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months
>>> to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
>>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling
>>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
>>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and
>>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work
>>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>>
>>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
>>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to
>>> my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>>
>>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
>>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not
>>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>>
>>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
>>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>>
>>> Lester
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
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>
>

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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

shetc
In reply to this post by Lester K H Chua
Hi Lester,

I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called Spherion Corporation.
Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These projects have been
delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the company millions of
dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway, I am not really
here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework is being used
by some serious players.

Steve
(Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Peter Thomas
Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and counting:

http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Lester,
>
> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called
> Spherion Corporation.
> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These
> projects have been
> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
> company millions of
> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway, I
> am not really
> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework
> is
> being used
> by some serious players.
>
> Steve
> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Lester K H Chua
You guys are AWESOME.
I'm composing an email to the evaluator-in-charge from the tech
committee. Hope all this is persuasive enough.

Regards,

Lester


Peter Thomas wrote:

> Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
> companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and counting:
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  
>> Hi Lester,
>>
>> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called
>> Spherion Corporation.
>> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These
>> projects have been
>> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
>> company millions of
>> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway, I
>> am not really
>> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework
>> is
>> being used
>> by some serious players.
>>
>> Steve
>> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>    
>
>  


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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Igor Vaynberg-2
ask them for their sources for adoption rates of struts 2, im curious.

-igor

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Lester Chua <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You guys are AWESOME.
> I'm composing an email to the evaluator-in-charge from the tech committee.
> Hope all this is persuasive enough.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lester
>
>
> Peter Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
>> companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and counting:
>>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Lester,
>>>
>>> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called
>>> Spherion Corporation.
>>> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These
>>> projects have been
>>> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
>>> company millions of
>>> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway,
>>> I
>>> am not really
>>> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework
>>> is
>>> being used
>>> by some serious players.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>>
>>> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
>>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>

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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Peter Thomas
Just a thought, in my experience a lot of project teams end up choosing
Struts2 thinking that it is a simple upgrade from Struts 1 and that existing
"in-house expertise" in Struts 1 can be preserved.  This line of thinking
obviously appeals to "management".

Just in case, make it clear that Struts 2 is a completely different
framework + learning curve.

- Peter

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Igor Vaynberg <[hidden email]>wrote:

> ask them for their sources for adoption rates of struts 2, im curious.
>
> -igor
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Lester Chua <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > You guys are AWESOME.
> > I'm composing an email to the evaluator-in-charge from the tech
> committee.
> > Hope all this is persuasive enough.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Lester
> >
> >
> > Peter Thomas wrote:
> >>
> >> Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
> >> companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and
> counting:
> >>
> >> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Lester,
> >>>
> >>> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company
> called
> >>> Spherion Corporation.
> >>> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket.
> These
> >>> projects have been
> >>> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
> >>> company millions of
> >>> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-)
> Anyway,
> >>> I
> >>> am not really
> >>> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket
> framework
> >>> is
> >>> being used
> >>> by some serious players.
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
> >>> --
> >>> View this message in context:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
> >>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Jonathan Locke
In reply to this post by scott.swank

yup.  ibm is into it.

i also think it's telling that wicket is a global phenomenon at this point... there are books on wicket in english (3), german (2), japanese (1) and chinese (1).  and these are independent books, not localizations of one book.

    jon

p.s. if your group needs advice, i occasionally do architectural consulting and there are also a number of trainers out there now.


Scott Swank wrote
The wiki has a list of some web sites that use Wicket.
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html

A quick search of IBM shows approx 1,080 articles on Wicket:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:ibm.com+wicket

Scott


On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Lester Chua <cicowicket@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket
> for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was
> the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket because
> of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will
> mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering not
> taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months to
> introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling
> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and
> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work
> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead and
> probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my
> wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not
> as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>

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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

leoerlandsson
In reply to this post by Lester K H Chua
Hi,

We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose an
inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket is
becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)

Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1

We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like that
the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.

I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
Immigration Office).


Sincerely yours
Leo Erlandsson






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2010-01-08 01:43
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Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers






Hi,

I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
Wicket for use in an organization.
I have:

1) Prototyped a small size module
2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket

No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
was the result.

BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
because of..... of all things.....
- Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
Can I find any numbers to blow this away?

My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
 (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.

Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......

It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
(JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
not as "clean" as Wicket.

Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?

Lester



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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Martijn Dashorst
Administrator
The dutch railways use wicket in at least one of their online apps
(http://eropuit.nl), I know some dutch government agencies are using
Wicket, dutch royal airlines (KLM) had/have a project using Wicket.

Martijn

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose an
> inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket is
> becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>
> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>
> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like that
> the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>
> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> Immigration Office).
>
>
> Sincerely yours
> Leo Erlandsson
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lester Chua <[hidden email]>
> 2010-01-08 01:43
> Sänd svar till
> [hidden email]
>
>
> Till
> [hidden email]
> Kopia
>
> Ärende
> Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
> Wicket for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
> was the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
> because of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>  (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
> considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
> involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
> lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
> those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
> only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
> entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
> dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
> that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
> to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
> by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
> not as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
> low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
>
>



--
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications
Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.4

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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

pieter_degraeuwe
The Flemish Goverenemt (Belgium) has at least 2 intranet applications built
on wicket. These are intranet applications, so I cannot give you some fancy
urls. (but the apps are really fancy, I can assure you :-) )

Pieter

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Martijn Dashorst <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> The dutch railways use wicket in at least one of their online apps
> (http://eropuit.nl), I know some dutch government agencies are using
> Wicket, dutch royal airlines (KLM) had/have a project using Wicket.
>
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
> an
> > inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
> is
> > becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
> >
> > Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> > http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
> >
> > We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> > both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like that
> > the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
> >
> > I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> > using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> > Immigration Office).
> >
> >
> > Sincerely yours
> > Leo Erlandsson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lester Chua <[hidden email]>
> > 2010-01-08 01:43
> > Sänd svar till
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > Till
> > [hidden email]
> > Kopia
> >
> > Ärende
> > Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
> > Wicket for use in an organization.
> > I have:
> >
> > 1) Prototyped a small size module
> > 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
> >
> > No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
> > was the result.
> >
> > BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
> > because of..... of all things.....
> > - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> > Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
> >
> > My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
> > will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> >  (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
> > considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
> > involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
> > lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
> > those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
> > only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
> > entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
> > dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
> > that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
> >
> > Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
> > and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
> > to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
> >
> > It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
> > by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> > (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
> > not as "clean" as Wicket.
> >
> > Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
> > low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
> >
> > Lester
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
> Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications
> Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.4
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
Pieter Degraeuwe
Systemworks bvba
Belgiëlaan 61
9070 Destelbergen
GSM: +32 (0)485/68.60.85
Email: [hidden email]
visit us at http://www.systemworks.be
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

joseph.pachod
In reply to this post by Lester K H Chua
Lester Chua wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
> Wicket for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
> was the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
> because of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
> considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
> involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
> lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot
> of those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1.
> The only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
> entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
> dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the
> beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough
> ahead and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and
> explain to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
> by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
> not as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
> low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
Hi Lester

Did you point out that someone like Gavin King recommends wicket (and
hence the Seam support for it) ?

It may help to convince about wicket's credibility.

hope it helps
++

--
Joseph Pachod
IT

THOMAS DAILY GmbH
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro-4
Do you mean this post?

http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/HowToStartLearningJavaEE6

Ernesto

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Pachod <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lester Chua wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket
>> for use in an organization.
>> I have:
>>
>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>
>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was
>> the result.
>>
>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>> because of..... of all things.....
>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>
>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will
>> mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering
>> not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months
>> to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling
>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and
>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work
>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>
>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to
>> my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>
>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not
>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>
>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>  Hi Lester
>
> Did you point out that someone like Gavin King recommends wicket (and hence
> the Seam support for it) ?
>
> It may help to convince about wicket's credibility.
>
> hope it helps
> ++
>
> --
> Joseph Pachod
> IT
>
> THOMAS DAILY GmbH
> Adlerstraße 19
> 79098 Freiburg
> Deutschland
> T  + 49 761 3 85 59 310
> F  + 49 761 3 85 59 550
> E  [hidden email]
> www.thomas-daily.de
>
> Geschäftsführer/Managing Directors:
> Wendy Thomas, Susanne Larbig
> Handelsregister Freiburg i.Br., HRB 3947
>
> Registrieren Sie sich unter www.signin.thomas-daily.de für die
> kostenfreien TD Morning News, eine  Auswahl aktueller Themen des Tages
> morgens um 9:00 in Ihrer Mailbox.
>
> Hinweis: Der Redaktionsschluss für unsere TD Morning News ist täglich um
> 8:30 Uhr. Es werden vorrangig Informationen berücksichtigt, die nach 16:00
> Uhr des Vortages eingegangen sind. Die Email-Adresse unserer Redaktion
> lautet [hidden email].
>
> To receive the free TD News International - a selection of the day's top
> issues delivered to your mail box every day - please register at
> www.signin.thomas-daily.de
>
> Please note: Information received for our TD News International after 4
> p.m. will be given priority for publication the following day. The daily
> editorial deadline is 8:30 a.m. You can reach our editorial staff at
> [hidden email].
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

joseph.pachod
Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
> Do you mean this post?
>
> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/HowToStartLearningJavaEE6
>
> Ernesto
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Pachod <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
For example yes

Gavin said so as well on others occasions (I kind of remember having
read it on some infoq's comment)

++


--
Joseph Pachod
IT

THOMAS DAILY GmbH
Adlerstraße 19
79098 Freiburg
Deutschland
T  + 49 761 3 85 59 310
F  + 49 761 3 85 59 550
E  [hidden email]
www.thomas-daily.de

Geschäftsführer/Managing Directors:
Wendy Thomas, Susanne Larbig
Handelsregister Freiburg i.Br., HRB 3947

Registrieren Sie sich unter www.signin.thomas-daily.de für die kostenfreien TD Morning News, eine  Auswahl aktueller Themen des Tages morgens um 9:00 in Ihrer Mailbox.

Hinweis: Der Redaktionsschluss für unsere TD Morning News ist täglich um 8:30 Uhr. Es werden vorrangig Informationen berücksichtigt, die nach 16:00 Uhr des Vortages eingegangen sind. Die Email-Adresse unserer Redaktion lautet [hidden email].

To receive the free TD News International - a selection of the day's top issues delivered to your mail box every day - please register at www.signin.thomas-daily.de

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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Loritsch, Berin C.
In reply to this post by leoerlandsson
"But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
numbers?"

The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
can turn thinking developers for mindless drones.  It has more to do
with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
from trying.  In this respect they are eternal optimists.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Hi,

We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
an
inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
is
becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)

Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1

We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
that
the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.

I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
Immigration Office).


Sincerely yours
Leo Erlandsson


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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

Martin Makundi
Someone should craft a very nice dilbert mashup for wicket ;)

**
Martin

2010/1/8 Loritsch, Berin C. <[hidden email]>:

> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
> numbers?"
>
> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones.  It has more to do
> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
> from trying.  In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>
> Hi,
>
> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
> an
> inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
> is
> becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>
> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>
> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
> that
> the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>
> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> Immigration Office).
>
>
> Sincerely yours
> Leo Erlandsson
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers

shetc
In reply to this post by Loritsch, Berin C.
Leo, I actually persuaded my then pointy haired boss to go with Wicket
by putting together a side-by-side comparison of techniques required
for creating JSF, Struts and Wicket-based applications. It was obvious
that the Wicket approach was just plain out cleaner, and would save
money in medium-to-long run. As they say, it's just HTML and Java
-- it makes it fun being a mindless drone


Loritsch, Berin C. wrote
The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
can turn thinking developers for mindless drones.  It has more to do
with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
123